[vsnet-chat 4258] on clarification...

[crawl@zoom.co.uk]

Taichi Kato responded:

>> Variable star observing is not an "egocentric sport", and as noted above
>> and in other posts, most observers look at the stars just cos they want to,
>
>   In your opinion, is there any field of astronomical activities which could
>be called as an "egocentric sport"?  If there is, my feeling is that
>variable star observing is considered at least by some people getting
>closer to the sport than has been ever thought.

I'm afraid that I wasn't making myself clear in my original comments.  Most
visual observers of variables I've ever come across just like to observe
their variables, and aren't after any qudos or rewards or such, is what I
was trying to say.

I suppose the problems arise when someone decides that being first is
important, albeit however irrelevant it truly is.

Taichi Kato also commented:

>However, there indeed exist professional astronomers who publish amatuer's
>findings as if they are discovered by these professional authors.

WHAT!!!!  Lynch the buggers, that's what I say!

Bish Ishibashi said:

>But the problem you have 
>raised here is more important (to me, say the least) than the actual 
>case: how do we really authenticate visual observations?  
>
>I honestly hope that from here on this thread moves toward discussing
>on that question rather than singling out a particular case. 

I don't know what to do about it.  It is indeed the case that the problem
couldn't possibly arise if some sort of fail safe system was in place.  I
_think_ the CBAT system just doesn't count pre-discoveries re novae,
supernovae and comets etc.  First come first served.  But this is part of
the problem in the case of CVs, however, as we have a strange thing going
on.  Priority and accreditation of discovery is no big thing in CV
outbursts, even ones that outburst infrequently.  It don't really matter.
This is where the word insidious comes in again.  Because it doesn't really
matter, it is not easy to notice if somebody decides to use the reporting
system in this way for a personal agenda.

And once someone starts playing this game, then it does begin to matter!  A
lot of folk have repeatedly complained about this behaviour, and don't like
it.

I've had my ear seriously bent on this topic and this specific perpetrator
over the years, and as such I'm a tad disappointed that one or two others,
besides Mike Simonsen, haven't come up with some more examples/evidence.
[You know who you are brumboy, or are you just on hols?]


Cheers, John, JG, UK


PS to Bish

>PS. John, try not to write so eloquently. :-) Many of us weren't raised
>    to read English as a native language...you've really made me look up 
>    Webster dictionary so often!! 
>
Ah, flattery will get you everywhere!!!  Actually, I was never taught
English, being as I am English.  When I went to school you had Shakespeare
and Brontes and such like stuff shoved down yer neck as reading material,
but I don't even remember being taught about apostrophes, let alone
grammar, and as far as I know an indefinite article is a paper that can't
make its mind up!

Written English is _my_ "second language" too: I was "drug up" in the
deepest, darkest Mill districts of the West Riding of Yorkshire, and though
I could _write_ that someone who ostensibly writes so  "eloquently" (as I
stand accused ;)) "suffered from an advanced state of verbosity", I would
actually _say_ "yon bugger ain't 'alf gorra gob on 'im".

Actually, I have a lot of difficutly with folk who speak English as a
second language, primarily because most people seem to be taught American
nowadays [or Yankglish as I call it], and I don't always follow what they
are saying.  If you don't believe me, just take note next time you see a
non-native English speaker speak in English on the TV news or similar.
They'll invariably say "for sure" in response to every other one of the
interviewers question, which am a Yank habit, and not a Brit one.

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